The parents and I had our first planning meeting, and at first glance, we are very different.

I am very driven about the three Rs, but beyond that I am very much an unschooler.

Not that I don't teach, just than in general I am not to picky what we are learning so long as we are.

So what if a kid is interested in Abraham Lincoln at 5, I do not plan on repeating or making him wait til 6 just because the 'plan' says 6 year olds have to study him..it is fine if they do, but fine if they don't.

And if they don't study him till 8 or 9. it is ok I might object if they never do study him though. But then again I might prefer they not to the current glamorized version of him.

Same with sciences, beyond life skills I see no need to insist that kids know how to classify birds or flowers, though I see no reason not to. I see no age requirements on Gods world, why do we impose them on children?

On the other hand I could get some Language and I would love for my kids to learn about nature from someone who knows....

Next week we meet again, I shall see how it goes.

I have heard some good things about Co-ops and have a couple friends that are interested in starting one of the Charlotte Mason variety.

We will have to read up on CM, plus more info on Co-ops, but I am hopeful we can start one in the fall. There are several subjects I hate and would gladly entrust to another. Would be nice to not have to care about if antelope's was a noun or adjective.

"The Antelope's vision was good"

vision is the subject...Was is the verb, Good definitely describes the noun..but Antelope's?

Seriously I have never in my adult life cared, except when checking children's English papers.

(see English is an adjective telling what kind of papers..but is Children's?)

Oh well, off to see if the kids want to hear another chapter of the Island Story.

I just learned of a home school co-op that literally right up the street from me, It would be a long walk, but I could prolly do it.

I have to do a bit more research into it, because I am mostly an un-schooler, I like to take things easy and slow and I am not all that worried if my kids skip certain skills.

for example I spoke of cutting awhile back, by oldest has poor skills, I just discovered my daughter (almost 2 years younger) cuts almost as well as I do! I am ok with GMC not doing well, figure if he needs to he will learn better.

I did a bit of research into Charlotte Mason, the program the co-op is based on. Some of the info is interesting, some a bit more than I care to do.

For example copywork, I have terrible handwriting and I recall my mother wanting me to do copywork, I recall copying books, I prefered to read them to copying them.

Anyway, all that effort and I still have lousy handwriting, not to sure it was worth it.

But I thought I could at least see if a little interest could improve my kids. So the other day I set the kids a simple task of copying for 15 minutes just to see how they would do, I told them I didn't care how much they got done, so long as they were working and it was neat. within 2 minutes JC was in tears, carried that on for the rest of the time. GMC on the other hand worked for the whole 15 minutes, and at the end said he wanted to finish copying the section!

I was amazed at the difference, GMC after all is my boy with lousy hand writing while JC has comparable writing (at almost 2 years younger)

Oh well, I learn something new about the kids every day.

This was a rant by a friend in reply to an email of a friend

I think it is worth sharing so here you have it:

> People are not going to vote for universally-mandated home schooling,

That's a blatant red herring. Unlike the Soviet Union, we didn't collectivize the farms. Does that mean everyone is mandated to grow their own groceries? In reality, only a few percent grow their own groceries; the rest rely upon the market, which (burdened though it may be with taxes, food stamps, and other nonsense) is still a lot more free than a soviet-style collective.

If we stop collectivizing education, that does not mean home schooling will be mandatory; it means that people won't be coerced to pay for or send their children to educational collectives. They'll be perfectly free to teach kids at home, or send them to free-market schools - which will be better and cheaper than the collectives.

Historically, free-market education has worked very well.. One of the key planks of Karl Marx was the collectivization of education. I'm sure he is absolutely thrilled with your support.... His propaganda campaign was so successful that people now forget that free-market alternatives are actually possible.

The Soviets finally abandoned collective farming when they saw how much better free-market alternatives were. I am hoping that our brains haven't been turned into such collective mush that we can't recognize the advantages of liberty.

Last year I didn't participate, not because I didn't like the idea, but because my kids are always asleep about 8:30 so the lights are always out.

I could carry the lights out to no TV while I put my youngest to bed, but..what else am I supposed to do? Computer time is the same amount of electricity, playing the Wii as well. I could read, but by candlelight that is rough on the eyes, and if I just go to bed she is likely to stay there all night, which while not terrible, she tends to wake me up with funny noises in the wee hours of the morning if she sleeps with us. Oh and conversations keep her up, so no to that either. Most crafts require both hands, or at least more freedom of one.

So This year I had a revelation..why not move it back an hour or two?

Yeah simple thought, but took me all year to come up with it!

So I wont be joining in the proper hour of 8:30, sorry, but I will be doing my own at 7:30

I thinkg etting ready for bed without alight in the bathroom while you brush teeth, or to read by, would be a good for them to try.

Found a link to

this site with some info and even lesson plans.

Now I have to be honest, I am not a chicken little thinking the sky is falling, in fact I see plenty of evidence it isn't, but I do feel there is no need to pour excess junk into our air, and I feel children should experience life without electricity sometimes, even if only for an hour. So join in, even if only for a little old fashioned fun.

***Do you know where your highschool diploma is? I do, I just had to copy it to register my son as a homeschooler here. I do not however have a copy for my husband, so I guess he wont be allowed to teach, hope the kids don't need to now anything about physics or chemistry since I certainly don't. (just so you know that was a joke, I never bothered to wait for the govt to tell me when/if I could teach my kids)

***I wonder when folk will say '800K isn't that much'.

wonder what the avg postal worker makes?

***How are you supposed to glue 'pipe cleaners'? they don't stick!

So today my son had the age old doubling question in his math book.

There are many ways to word it, from rice bowls to pennies, to gold pieces, but in general everyone should know the answer.

one version
the gist is you can have one penny the first day, then it doubles each day, 2 the second, 4 the third and so on. Or a large flat fee. Which is better?

I know the theory, but I am not a fan of numbers, so I generally let excel do the math.

But today doing the math, "How much will you make on day 30?" was the question so some number crunching was in order (he can do the math himself but I have to check it)

After discovering day 30's amount, he wanted to know what day you would get over 1 billion, so off he went to crunch numbers. Wasn't done with his other work, but it is prolly better to let him do math when he wants, than to force him to do work in any particular order.

here is a one grain rice
doubling with a moral.

On a related note I keep finding that boy reading when he could be working..still rather hard to make him stop reading for little things.

What would the world say if I told EL (7 months old) she had to learn to talk right this minute, no matter how interested she was in walking?

I have read many folk who define themselves by their jobs (paid or unpaid) and I find that sad.

I am more than a sum of all my roles.

Mother, teacher, lover, housekeeper, maid, cook, Education director, scout leader, committee member, bookkeeper, reader, writer.

Whichever task of the day I am on, I could make a title for.

But it wouldn't change who I am.

If I drop a job, such as finances I would still be me.

If I take on a new role, such as plumber, I would still be me.

Though at the heart of it all I am a teacher, just as much as my son is a math-magician, you can't change that by changing our jobs.

So how do I know I am a teacher? I constantly do it.

I don't sing 'this little piggie' (not that there is anything wrong with it) I talk about "Tickling Toes" that start with "T" you have Ten of them!

I don't make 'airplane noises' (not that there is anything wrong with it) when I want my baby to open up, I make animal noises "cows say Moooooo" (or letter ones, A says AAAA)

I don't listen when placement tests tell me 'this is not a teaching opportunity' YES IT IS! Everything is a teaching opportunity! Whether you use it or not, ALL of life is a series of teachable moments.

Just as my son sees all numbers as things to be manipulated and played with, I see all life as opportunity to share.

So yeah, I do define myself as a teacher, but not because I home-school, nor any other role I fill. I define myself as a teacher, because in 20 some years it has proven to be the thing I am best at.

But you know...I am still more than that, you would miss a large part of me if all you looked at was my teaching habits.

Just as you would miss a large part of GMC if all you looked at was his math ability.

I have been contemplating what to do with math as my children near the end of their workbooks.

First I must explain why I care about a math workbook. While we are mainly an eclectic/un-schooling family I do believe in formalish work for the 3R's - Reading wRiting, and aRithmetic.

In my experience computation requires repetitiveness so we have solid math courses. Though most of the education and such for math is done with games, daily written computation sans calculator is required. The same with writing, all the fun games, and making letters out of duplos wont help when you are filling out an application or writing a resume. As for the reading, done daily but no formal program.

So back to my need for a math program.

I found

this site and had my kids take the placements for Saxon math and the free reading one.

Now for the brag...

Are you ready for what GMC placed at?

Really ready?

Algebra 1........

If you know the kid you are prolly not that surprised,he is a math genius, but I just have to say it again, Algebra 1!!!!!

I actually hunted the test because he is about to finish his Saxon 7/6 book and when I said Algebra 1 was next he said he wanted the MAth 8/7 first. I thought about compromising with the Algebra 1/2, but figured I would let the test tell him how good he was. He is a number cruncher, so he dislikes throwing letters into the mix, I prefer the logic of letters, so we shall see how much we can get Daddy to help him (Daddy is also a number cruncher)

JC placed midway between Saxon 2 and Saxon 3..mainly because she is doing Horizons math now and they do not do as much with clocks or with temperatures. That and she STILL writes numbers backwards.

I decided to try the Singapore tests for JC, and decided to try the Horizon test for UE. Tomorrow though.

Now I am off to hunt up a Saxon Algebra book for GMC (and prolly soon Singapore and something for UE)

The Girl Scouts are gearing up for World Thinking Day by studying up on Pakistan.

So far we built a model home, colored pictures of the prime ministers house, learned a bit about the culture and dress.

Next week we will be making a head scarf and decorating it with jewels.

I printed a few details about Girl Guides there, and am printing a

map and 'hello' in Urdu.

The other half of my morning is googling and printing info for my Cub scout. He is earning his 'citizenship belt loop'. So he has to make a poster about what makes a good citizen. He asked for the pledge, a flag, and a recycle symbol. I insisted he have something about voting as well.

You can do anything with google and a printer

I am holding a very nice crayon drawing of a flower.

JC traced a mirror shaped like a flower, then she shaded it..really with crayon. IT has dark 'highlights' on the bottom of the leaves, and a line through the stem that sorta makes it look more real. Or at least like real art anyway.

Kinda neat, since I have no artistic talent I am often amazed by little things.

GMC meanwhile did a self portrait...with orange skin. and a miniature head compared to the rest of the body, first glance it looks like a cartoon of a shrunken head skit or something, and he comments 'I made the feet really big I guess' whitch is true, about as big as his legs, but still goes to show what a kid thinks of. The body is also a box, nearly perfect square, fingers are lines. cute picture. (JC did one earlier, her head was huge, almost as big as the rest of the body combined, less boxy)

Yesterday while working on valentines I had two thoughts.

1. UE is cute, he made a 'valentine Clementine'. because when he tried to cut out hearts they looked more like clementines (the look like scraps of orange paper really, but hey why not)

2. When do grown ups cut? When was the last time you needed to cut a shape out? I iumagine scrapbookers, and of course teachers of the very young do quite frequently. BUt my husband in computers, as far as I can tell only opens packages, or cuts labels. No fancy shapes. And looking at the jobs of all the folk I know....no special need to cut out hearts or lions in the computer field, pastors, grocery work, baking, electrical repair, medical records, nurses, masonry, ...

You get the idea. Cutting is not really much of an adult skill (unless you work with small children) So why does it bother me that my son is subpar in that area? (though improving with all the heart practice he is getting this week)

I wanted to find a link to a free reading test that I had the kids take last year.

So I searched my blog for it, figured if I thought it was good I might have shared.

Well searching for reading turned up lots of results, some rather interesting, but not the right one.

Then I tried quiz, still no luck, though again some things worth rereading.

I don't recall the next few tries, but they took way to long as I reread some old posts.

I finally found it under [nevermind, lost it] but in the meantime I had a grand old time reading all sorts of old posts and thinking about the past. I guess this is why folk like journals, but this online stuff is way better for folk with lousy hand writing.

I also noticed the better reads were far away, did I write better then, or just being from so long ago made it better?

-My kids do 'worksheets' in all sorts of places so we have a few clipboards, one is the old kind with the big silver 'clip'. And GMC thought it was loads of fun to tilt it up and down and goof off while he should have been working on writing.

So why is this a good part of my day? because learning about

'fun house' effects is more useful than knowing how to write neatly in today's computer world, besides it made us smile.

-I do let my kids in on mathematical shortcuts, but they don't always remember them. Today the whole simple fast way to multiply by 100 was forgotten by GMC for some reason.

So I told him to multiply the old fashioned way (write it down) Of course you aught to know, no one in the house likes to write things down, his math is always a problem number beside a final answer, with the occasional barely legible scratch work somewhere else on the paper.


I said "multiply by 1"

him-6.2 but..." more whining

Me- "now multiply by 10, write it down
10
* 6.2 (stacked)

and do the work"

him- ....62..

Me- "OK now "

Him interrupting- "Never mind I can do it now."

I keep hearing "I don't have patience to homeschool". Which is the funniest thing, I have no patience yet I homeschool!

Maybe I should let you all in on the big secret...my day isn't all cooperative kids or ingenious ways to get them to cooperate.

In fact this whole week my daughter has been a royal PIA. Seriously, between forgetting how to write double digit numbers (81 and 18 are not the same) and ignoring work entirely, I am not sure one productive activity has occurred without punishment in days!

Right now I am escaping dealing with her sitting on the floor talking instead of sweeping. My first response would be yell, then punish, along with a lot more yelling. I have no patience for this sort of thing, I figure the simple concept work first then play aught to do the trick, but nope we have to have a battle over cleaning up the food she dropped. (and that is why I am online ignoring it till I work up the strength to speak with her sans yelling)

But, 'this too shall pass'. Last week GMC was the one not working. Kids take turns so far as I can tell. Not that GMC isn't driving me batty right now, he seems to have forgotten how to divide this week. Something he has been doing for eons.

Again 'this too shall pass'. He learned then forgot then relearned how to subtract with borrowing (I was so surprised at how easily his sister picked that one up!)

And UE simply will not memorize his alphabet...I know he is young yet, but really after all this time, I am a bit bored repeating it! Not to mention he STILL pees when asleep (nap or night).

I think 'this too shall pass', I know it took JC forever to learn her alphabet (they all knew the letters long before the order) On the PTing.... well I have heard some boys bladders take awhile o mature?

Little El, on the other hand is adorably content, patient, and gives me a perfect excuse not to yell, mainly that she is nursing right now . Unfortunately....'this too shall pass'!

So please don't tell me you have no patience, all parents have enough, relax, type a blog post or something, then go back to the repetitive life that is the job of raising kids.

"This too shall pass.....I hope"

The kids heard of "Miss Mary Mack" and wanted to know how to 'play'

Seeing as how I never played I had to turn to the wonderful internet for help.

dltk Mary Mack

Now we have a pattern and the words, kids killed an hour practicing, and I forever have Mack Mack Mack burned in my skull.

Fortunately research shows rhythm is good for babies, so we have a new way for the other kids to keep El happy while I work.

Well more like a door way store. Even more precise, in my way store.

The older two (non napping) kids have set up a store between my kitchen and living room, which if I were not sitting on my duff wasting time I would be walking through to do dishes and laundry.

It seems one grape is 10cents or a box of 20 for $2 (no bulk discounts)

There is also blue cheese, "no one usually buys it because it isn't very good, no one really likes it so we upped the price"

Or the 20lb chicken for $100 (half is $50, 5 lb is $25).only available in 20lb, 10 lb, or 5 lb, sizes.

What amazes me, isn't the imagination or the desire to buy things...it is that they have the patience to sort out all the grapes (purple scraps) from the blueberries, from the chicken (white paper) meal after meal after meal, so they can buy them again!

Regardless I am very glad they not only have the time to waste on this, they also already did a weeks worth of 'schooling'.

No off my duff to work.

My son does have a very active imagination, but when it comes to writing them down...in coherent format. HE tends to stick with rewriting stories he has heard, it bothered me till I found an entire English program that has rewriting stories as part of the package!

So for your amusement, the three little [igs as written by GMC:

Once upon a time, there were two knights. The first knight built a wooden house. A dragon came along and burned the house down. The knight ran to the second knight, who had just finished his stone castle. The dragon came to the castle and tried to burn it down. He could not burn it down! The dragon ran out of breath and left the castle alone.

This time I tried getting them to decide on a character, a problem and a solution before they started writing. JC had a short and simple story:

Susan wanted to be a witch. But she didn't have a robe. So she used her blanket.

In general I ignore the moon. It doesn't help me keep track of anything, and I can't see it from my house most of the time, so why bother.

But my son has developed an interest in it.

Did you know 'almost full is actually gibbous? (waxing or waning depending on if it is going full or shrinking)

Well after a bit of reading last night GMC wanted to see the real thing, so I took a peek outside, no moon visible from either the front or back yard.

According to this

site, the trouble seems to be the moon 'rose' around 11 am, and would 'set' at 9ish, I should have been looking behind trees or houses for it, instead of up.

But then checking this site I would have been looking at a 'new moon'...new being astronomers term for 'no moon to see'...

Though I cannot seem to find if that site knows where I live or not.

Regardless we shall make another attempt later in the week. Just have to figure out which way to look.

While writing an email regarding my teaching habits for a new homeschooler, I realized how little of my day is traditional, yet at the same time, how academically advanced my kids are.

Either my kids are genetic mutants, or the rest of my day is more important than the schooling (my personal theory, though of course they are smart)

I typed up a few of our habits, and came to dinner, I often get a helper or two, sometimes I incorporate a lesson, fractions or counting, or simply following directions. Others I just see what they know to do. Life skills, the day is full of them when you don't have to much paperwork to do.

Then there is the fact that ALL games we play have an element of learning in them, from Brain quest (all educational questions) to Zingo (like uno, only you match an instrument, complete a puzzle, spell a word, or add up to 11) To simple dice games, or even memory, we learn while we play. Computer games and the new leapster of course are learning games as well.

Of course dinner conversations factor in to the learning, from a question and answer session to talking of politics or sports (we simplify them a bit after our adult rant) Even a 'review' (fancy academic word for talk about) of a recent movie or book. We are always learning and using our knowledge.

I guess if they were behind academically I would feel more obligated to sit them down for longer ..... but thankfully they are well ahead for their age, and show no signs of slowing down.

Even a halloween costume was a reason to learn. GMC wants to be a skeleton, not only did we have to figure out how to make a costume, we had to figure out what bones to show, and there is a brief lesson in anatomy.

But I don't want to come off like I am constantly looking for a learning oportunity, JC wants to be a flower fairy princess, can't really see what is educational about that though we did make her a tutu, just not the most important skill in the world. I didn't make her study up on faery mythology or anything, we just let her have fun.

But at the same time, learning to make a tutu is building brain connections, and the more you build the easier it is...which is far more useful for ancient me, than young kids who make them regardless.

Kids are like sponges, they will learn, we just get to help choose what they learn.

I am guilty of spoiling my kids.

UE has a workbook full of a variety of worksheets. All full color, and plenty of fluff. JC has a full color fluffy math book, so when GMC said he wanted one of his own...I put it on the list to get. I know he doesn't need one, but, what harm can it do to let him have a full color book with silly graphics to practice writing of math on? so long as he still does the math or writing.

So I am off to waste $8, but not till our weekly grocery run.

Tuesday is scout night, I take my family to scouts, all 4 of the kids. only the older two are in scouts, but there is no alternative for the other 2.

El spent the entire night in someone elses arms, ok I took her for 2 minutes to find someone else to hold her while I did scout stuff.

UE was shuffled between rooms to build a puzzle or play a game, all without me. and Other than the actual meeting GMC and JC were nowhere near me.

If I had been at work all day or they at school I wouldn't have had any time with them at all!

As it is, I need some help so I have less jobs to do in scouts. I can't do it all, and not even the loving support of my husband is enough. We need help if we don't get it ASAP, we are moving to a different pack that only wants two willing adults, not 5 or 6.

I found a While back a webiste that will test kids on books then award points that can be used for simple prizes..nothing to dramatic, some tattoos or an ebook.

www.bookadventure.com

The kids have recently been taking tests everyday, or rather I have been asking them to. In general they do quite well, but the options are limited...well compared to the library anyway. We come home with a stack of 15 books and maybe two will be on there.

It works better if you go to the library with a list but our way the kid reads 4 books and takes a test on one..not such a bad thing.

Anyway it is a free way to check comprehension of a book I haven't read. Important as I read less and less of my sons books. Never thought I would say that....

My dad pointed me to a cool 'scripting' program. He thought my son might like it, which is possible, I dunno boys been in trouble for two days.

Anyway I played with it and I made this little counting program.

scratch count

Actually kindof easy, but I need to figure out how to get sound to it so it actually counts.

Well the laptop is all loaded up and goes online....but the A key was broken, so I debated if it was better.

Turns out the key was fixed in less than 2 minutes! Husband just took it apart did something put it back together and voila, all better!

He says it was simple and he could prolly fix the other keyboard (but not the slow net). While I agree a minute is simple, I still have no idea how to do it myself. I would guess that many fields have 'easy' tasks that are only easy to the expert.

I have a 'stick' for my hair, it is just a smooth stick. aught to be simple, yet I cannot even sand down a derby car much less make a stick smooth enough to not snag on my hair.

Or sewing, I hear making curtains is so simple one would be a fool to pay for them, yet I cannot sew a straight line to save my life.

On the other hand sewing patches on uniforms is fast becoming quick and easy. As are buttons. patching pocket holes in my husbands dress slacks on the other hand, not to sure I managed that well.

One mans simple task is insurmountable to another.

JC of course wanted to write a story as well..other than worse spelling and no spaces between words, she did rather well for almost 5 anyway:

Harry and Ron took their wands out. Dumbledore came and taught them how to make magic bracelets for Hermoine and Ginny.

We have been listening to books on tape, right now it is Harry potter and the prisoner of Azkaban. Aparently the children have Harry on the brain!

When I asked my son to write a story he chose "Harry Potter and the Dragon" After some spelling help and a bit of revision here is the story by GMC:

Harry was in the castle reading the "Monster Book of Monsters". Then Lord Voldemort appeared with a wand as bright as the sun. Ron followed behind, flailing his arms with his wand pointed at Voldemort.

Quickly Voldemort vanished. Harry Ron and Hermoine pulled out their wands, but nothing happened for hours.

After they put their wands back, the three of them went to professor Lupins office. They found a a tin snake. Ron slipped itinto his empty pocket.

Then they went to the quidditch field. When they got to the field, a dragon swept past them. The mounted their brooms and found some swords. They fought the dragon. It was Ron who noticed that Voldemort was riding on the dragon.

Voldemorts wand fell down down to Harry's hand. Harry killed the dragon but not hte evil wizard. Voldemort ran off to bring out the basilisk for another day.

I never to my knowledge had my face painted, I also was told drinks at a ren fest were far to expensive and to suffer in thirst till we went to the car.
(don't even think about asking for food)

While I do agree both face painting and drinks at ren fests are too expensive, I also paid for them this last weekend.

We went with several drinks in the backback, just not enough for the hot day. So when the kids said they were thirsty we stopped and got the ridiculously priced bottle of water. When they were hungry and had alread eaten a smuggled in granola bar, we bought the overpriced breadstickcks, and soup.

I figure in these prices when I make sure we have enough to go, one friend told me she didn't think saving 20$ a month on the electric by keeping the air 4 degrees higher was worth it. For me that 20 a month over the last three months just paid for a very wonderful vacation being able to afford drinks, admission tips games and food. Since I most folk are not comfy at 76 anyway, why not make it 80 and be able to afford the vacation?

Besides the kids managed to learn a bit, GMC learned how to do a formal bow, and they all got to watch a medieval bell instrument. Can't remember the name, but I didn't get to see it (nursing El elsewhere) They also learned one reason why we don't bother to cool the house that well.

Oh yeah and we got to see some family....

Apparently

sleep makes you smarter.

Well I not only have a newborn, I am also not smart enough to go to bed as soon as she does.

So I wont be getting my brain back anytime soon. (not that I had much of one to begin with!)

(also explains why a kid who is struggling with concept one day finds it easy the next. when in doubt, sleep on it!)

Average cost per year for a family of 3 children (infants are free to educate):

Paper and ink for printer: $75
Pencils and erasers: $5
Workbooks: $25
Field trips: $50
Scouts: $200

Watching my kids learn and knowing they have the best chance to fulfill their potential? priceless.

compare my 355 to DC's 20K...and you gotta wonder where all that money is going to?

What Plato thought no parents would ever do, turn over their own children to others to be reeducated, the parents of America did after World War II.

the teenage myth

if you wondered why plato wanted the kids...

In addition, Plato believed that the interests of the state are best preserved if children are raised and educated by the society as a whole, rather than by their biological parents. So he proposed a simple (if startlingly unfamiliar) scheme for the breeding, nurturing, and training of children in the guardian class. (Note that the same children who are not permitted to watch and listen to "dangerous" art are encouraged to witness first-hand the violence of war.) The presumed pleasures of family life, Plato held, are among the benefits that the higher classes of a society must be prepared to forego.

plato

With the ever-present danger of tyranny accompanying military rule, efforts must be made to curb the guardians' natural tendency to lord over the citizens. Socrates suggests that the guardians be controlled through an education designed to make them like "noble puppies" that are fierce with enemies and gentle with familiars (375a). Education in music for the soul and gymnastics for the body, Socrates says, is the way to shape the guardians' character correctly and thereby prevent them from terrorizing the citizens. Thus, the guardians' education is primarily moral in nature, emphasizing the blind acceptance of beliefs and behaviors rather than the ability to think critically and independently.

plato on education

financially speaking I read today...

Dad: ok, found the "where the money goes" chart
1.7 billion for public education
me: how many kids?
Dad: about 120,000 under the age of 18
make it 78,000 school-age kids
over $20k per child per year

sorry he had other things todo before I got the link the the chart myself..but he did say:

Dad:got a site for the Mayor'
s office
Google says "this site may harm your computer"
......
Dad: This warning message appears with search results we've identified as sites that may install malicious software on your computer:
apparently they mayor's office is infested with some form of crudware

me: wonder what the IT budget is...

and then further research of Dad...

Dad: "Only 37 percent of tested students in District of Columbia Public Schools and the city’s public charter schools earned proficient or advanced rankings in reading in 2007, and only 32 percent reached those levels in math, Jennifer Comey told the city council. However, between 2006 and 2007, the share of all public school students testing proficient or advanced increased. In 2007, public charter school students tested slightly higher on average compared with DCPS students."
that is from a study by the urban institute

That was a quote he pulled, kids had me busy so I didn't get to ask for the link.

regardless I trust his research.